Fencing Draft notes:Using Weapons And Defensive Objects: Difference between revisions
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:Follows discussions as to whether a blade and point are different, considering construction of spear heads which obviously have a blade you can't use, and act only as a point. | :Follows discussions as to whether a blade and point are different, considering construction of spear heads which obviously have a blade you can't use, and act only as a point. | ||
;For notes section | ;For notes section | ||
: | :January 2024 - Clarifies that the point of the sword and dagger can also be used to strike your opponent. | ||
<hr> | <hr> | ||
;Was 2.6.2.4, would have been 6.2.4 | ;Was 2.6.2.4, would have been 6.2.4 | ||
| Line 23: | Line 23: | ||
:Tip cuts are an accepted part of fencing combat in Lochac. | :Tip cuts are an accepted part of fencing combat in Lochac. | ||
;For notes section | ;For notes section | ||
: | :January 2024 - Tip cuts are an accepted part of fencing combat in Lochac, so the previous requirement to agree to use them has been removed. | ||
<hr> | <hr> | ||
| Line 41: | Line 41: | ||
:Adds clarity around when killing from behind can be used. Marshals will be able to add additional restrictions (such as "outside of 120 degrees of the front arc"), but this is very difficult to clearly legislate. | :Adds clarity around when killing from behind can be used. Marshals will be able to add additional restrictions (such as "outside of 120 degrees of the front arc"), but this is very difficult to clearly legislate. | ||
;For notes section: | ;For notes section: | ||
: | :January 2024 - Clarification added for when killing from behind may be used, and allows marshals to add additional restrictions | ||
<hr> | <hr> | ||
| Line 70: | Line 70: | ||
:Clarifies standard practice that marshals do not need full protection when the only additional threat is a rubber band gun. | :Clarifies standard practice that marshals do not need full protection when the only additional threat is a rubber band gun. | ||
;For notes section | ;For notes section | ||
: | :January 2024 - Clarifation added that marshals do not need full armour when rubber band guns are the only additional threat. | ||
<hr> | <hr> | ||
;6.5.4 in Rubber band guns | ;6.5.4 in Rubber band guns | ||
| Line 81: | Line 81: | ||
:Formalising standrd practice | :Formalising standrd practice | ||
;For note section | ;For note section | ||
: | :January 2024 - Clarification that marshals may amend scenario rules to make objects indestructable or proof against shots. | ||
<hr> | <hr> | ||
| Line 94: | Line 94: | ||
:Formalise standard practice | :Formalise standard practice | ||
;For notes section | ;For notes section | ||
: | :January 2024 - Reminder to have your rubber band gun inspected by a marshal if it is struck by any weapon other than a rubber band to ensure that it is still safe to use. | ||
<hr> | <hr> | ||
;Was 2.6.5.2, now 6.6.2 in Defensive objects | ;Was 2.6.5.2, now 6.6.2 in Defensive objects | ||
| Line 121: | Line 121: | ||
:Some marshals and fencers are unclear if this is legal/safe or not, despite existing language allowing it. | :Some marshals and fencers are unclear if this is legal/safe or not, despite existing language allowing it. | ||
;For notes section | ;For notes section | ||
: | :January 2024 - When you throw your cloak at your opponent, it may block their vision while in the air, but you may not throw it to cover their face or to trip them. | ||
<hr> | <hr> | ||
| Line 149: | Line 149: | ||
:You can parry your opponent's defensive objects too, but if your action results in a legal blow from your opponent, you must take it. | :You can parry your opponent's defensive objects too, but if your action results in a legal blow from your opponent, you must take it. | ||
;For notes section | ;For notes section | ||
: | :January 2024 - A reminder that legal blows from cuts or thrusts that occur while you are attempting to parry with part of your body are still legal blows. | ||
<hr> | <hr> | ||
| Line 163: | Line 163: | ||
:Clarification. Adds an example of what might be grasping an opponent, and makes it clear that brief incidental contact is legal. | :Clarification. Adds an example of what might be grasping an opponent, and makes it clear that brief incidental contact is legal. | ||
;For notes section | ;For notes section | ||
: | :January 2024 - Added an example of what might be grasping an opponent, and makes it clear that brief incidental contact is legal. | ||
<hr> | <hr> | ||
| Line 177: | Line 177: | ||
:Some fencers have been known to circle a blade with an index and thumb, claiming this is not grasping the blade. This is unacceptable and unchivalric "rules lawyering" to take advantage of an unclear rule. | :Some fencers have been known to circle a blade with an index and thumb, claiming this is not grasping the blade. This is unacceptable and unchivalric "rules lawyering" to take advantage of an unclear rule. | ||
;For notes section | ;For notes section | ||
: | :January 2024 - Examples of blade grasping have been included, as this was previously unclear. | ||
;6.6.8 in Defensive objects | ;6.6.8 in Defensive objects | ||
| Line 188: | Line 188: | ||
:Accidental overextension of opponent's joints has been observed repeatedly, especially when taking control of a spear where the fighter is unable to drop the object. This emphasises the importance of control and that, should there be an incident, the burden is on the fighter who performed the action to justify their action. | :Accidental overextension of opponent's joints has been observed repeatedly, especially when taking control of a spear where the fighter is unable to drop the object. This emphasises the importance of control and that, should there be an incident, the burden is on the fighter who performed the action to justify their action. | ||
;For notes section | ;For notes section | ||
: | :January 2024 - Following a number of incidents of accidental overextension of an opponent's joints, rule 6.6.8 has been added as a reminder to take care. | ||
Revision as of 08:09, 23 December 2023
- Was 2.6.2.2, now 6.2.2 in Striking your opponent
- Was
- You are not allowed to strike your opponent with any other part of the sword or dagger except the blade.
- Now
- You are not allowed to strike your opponent with any other part of the sword or dagger except the blade and point.
- Functional change
- None, clarification
- Reason
- Follows discussions as to whether a blade and point are different, considering construction of spear heads which obviously have a blade you can't use, and act only as a point.
- For notes section
- January 2024 - Clarifies that the point of the sword and dagger can also be used to strike your opponent.
- Was 2.6.2.4, would have been 6.2.4
- Was
- You and your opponent need to agree to allow the use of tip cuts before the bout.
- Now
- Removed
- Subsequent rules renumbered
- Functional change
- Opponents no longer need to agree to the use of tip cuts beforre they can be used.
- Reason
- Tip cuts are an accepted part of fencing combat in Lochac.
- For notes section
- January 2024 - Tip cuts are an accepted part of fencing combat in Lochac, so the previous requirement to agree to use them has been removed.
- Was 2.6.2.1, now 6.3 Killing from behind
- What was 2.6.2.1 Killing from behind has been renumbered to 6.3 to avoid a numbering clash with 6.2 Striking your opponent's sub-rules.
- What was 2.6.2.2 Killing a gunner has been moved to be part of 3.3 Gunners
- Subsequent rules have been renumbered.
- 6.3.3 and 4 in Killing from behind
- Insert new rules
- 6.3.3 - You must use "killing from behind" when you are behind the line of your opponent's shoulders. Marshals may further restrict this angle at their discretion.
- 6.3.4 - If "killing from behind" is not allowed in the scenario, you may not strike your opponent while behind the line of your opponent's shoulders.
- Functional change
- Clarification added for when killing from behind may be used, and allows marshals to add additional restrictions
- Reason
- Adds clarity around when killing from behind can be used. Marshals will be able to add additional restrictions (such as "outside of 120 degrees of the front arc"), but this is very difficult to clearly legislate.
- For notes section
- January 2024 - Clarification added for when killing from behind may be used, and allows marshals to add additional restrictions
- Was 2.6.4.1 and 2.6.4.1.a , now 6.5.1 in Rubber band guns
- Was
- You can use a rubber band gun for melee combat, or for single combat that is not a tournament, such as bouting.
- (a) In accordance with the Rules of the Lists, rubber band guns are not allowed to be used within the Lists of a tournament.
- Now
- Loaded rubber band guns are not allowed to be used in the Lists of a tournament. Unloaded rubber band guns can be used for all forms of single combat and melee as parrying devices.
- (b) now 6.5.2 and subsequent rules renumbered.
- Functional change
- None
- Reason
- Bouting is not defined, and a bout is usually a measure of action in a tournament. Combined 1 and a as it's explanation of the rule, and 2 is a separate rule about armouring appropriately.
- For notes section
- Not required, just simplifying language.
- Was 2.6.4.1.b, now 6.52 in Rubber band guns
- Was
- When rubber band guns are used, all people on the field must be wearing protective equipment, and any unarmoured spectators must be kept further away than the effective range of the weapon.
- Now
- When rubber band guns are used, all people on the field must be wearing protective equipment, and any unarmoured spectators must be kept further away than the effective range of the weapon. Marshals can wear head protection (as per section 8.3) as a minimum.
- Functional change
- None. Clarifies standard practice that marshals do not need full protection when the only additional threat is a rubber band gun.
- Reason
- Clarifies standard practice that marshals do not need full protection when the only additional threat is a rubber band gun.
- For notes section
- January 2024 - Clarifation added that marshals do not need full armour when rubber band guns are the only additional threat.
- 6.5.4 in Rubber band guns
- Insert new rule and renumber subsequent rules
- Marshals may alter these rules to allow some objects to be indestructible and "proof" against shots, but must make this clear before lay on is called.
- Functional change
- Marshals may alter the scenario rules to allow some objects to be indestructible and "proof" against shots, but must make this clear before lay on is called.
- Reason
- Formalising standrd practice
- For note section
- January 2024 - Clarification that marshals may amend scenario rules to make objects indestructable or proof against shots.
- Was 2.6.5.3 in Defensive objects, moved to 6.5.8 in Rubber band guns
- Was
- If you defend yourself with a rubber band gun and it is damaged, you will have to check with the marshal if the rubber band gun still meets the rules to be used as a weapon.
- If your rubber band gun is struck by a weapon other than a rubber band, you must have it reinspected by a marshal to ensure it is not damaged or unsafe before you use it again.
- Functional change
- None, formalises standard practice
- Reason
- Formalise standard practice
- For notes section
- January 2024 - Reminder to have your rubber band gun inspected by a marshal if it is struck by any weapon other than a rubber band to ensure that it is still safe to use.
- Was 2.6.5.2, now 6.6.2 in Defensive objects
- Was
- You are not allowed to strike your opponent with a shield, rigid defensive object or rubber band gun.
- Now
- You are not allowed to strike your opponent with a shield, rigid defensive object or rubber band gun. Fleeting, incidental contact is allowed.
- Functional change
- None
- Reason
- Clarification
- For notes section
- Not required
- Was 2.6.5.4.c, now 6.6.3.c in Defensive objects
- Was
- you can throw your cloak, or another type of non-rigid object, at your opponent to slow down their attack or defence, or as a distraction.
- Now
- you can throw your cloak, or another type of non-rigid object, at your opponent to slow down their attack or defence, or as a distraction. This may include briefly blocking your opponent's vision when the cloak is in front of them in the air.
- Functional change
- Clarification that this is allowed
- Reason
- Some marshals and fencers are unclear if this is legal/safe or not, despite existing language allowing it.
- For notes section
- January 2024 - When you throw your cloak at your opponent, it may block their vision while in the air, but you may not throw it to cover their face or to trip them.
- Was 2.5.4.d, now 6.6.3.d in Defensive Objects
- Was
- you must not deliberately throw your cloak over your opponent's face, or to trip them - if the cloak falls over their face, a hold should be called.
- Now
- you must not throw your cloak over your opponent's face, or to trip them. If the cloak falls over their face, of the fallen cloak becomes a trip hazard, a hold should be called.
- Functional change
- Mentions fallen cloak as a trip hazard as a reason to call a hold.
- Reason
- Clarifies and enhances safety.
- For notes section
- Not required, covered by previous note.
- Was 2.6.5.5, now 6.6.4 in Defensive objects
- Was
- You can parry your opponent's weapon with any part of your body in a controlled action, such as using your gloved hand to deflect or push against the blade.
- Now
- You can parry your opponent's weapon or other equipment with any part of your body in a controlled action, such as using your gloved hand to deflect or push against the blade. However, any thrust or cut that that occurs as a result of that contact will count as a good blow, regardless of your intentions or who started the action.
- Functional change
- You can parry your opponent's defensive objects too, but if your action results in a legal blow from your opponent, you must take it.
- Reason
- You can parry your opponent's defensive objects too, but if your action results in a legal blow from your opponent, you must take it.
- For notes section
- January 2024 - A reminder that legal blows from cuts or thrusts that occur while you are attempting to parry with part of your body are still legal blows.
- Was 2.6.5.6, now 6.6.5 in Defensive objects
- Was
- You can use your hand to parry your opponent's weapon or wrist. This is a change from the previous rules. You are not allowed to grasp your opponent.
- Now
- You can use your hand to parry your opponent's weapon or wrist. You are not allowed to grasp your opponent. Grasping includes, but is not limited to, taking hold of any part of your opponent with your hand. Fleeting incidental contact is allowed.
- Functional change
- None
- Reason
- Clarification. Adds an example of what might be grasping an opponent, and makes it clear that brief incidental contact is legal.
- For notes section
- January 2024 - Added an example of what might be grasping an opponent, and makes it clear that brief incidental contact is legal.
- Was 2.6.5.8, now 6.6.7
- Was
- You can briefly hold your opponent's blade to control it, but both of you must agree to use grasping during the bout. Grasping should be for no more than a couple of seconds, so that you do not start wrestling for the blade.
- Now
- If both you and your opponent agree to use blade grasping during a bout, you can briefly hold your opponent’s blade to control it. Grasping should be for no more than a couple of seconds, so that you do not start wrestling for the blade. Blade grasping includes, but is not limited to, taking hold of an opponent's blade with your hand, or circling a blade with fingers, such as index and thumb in an "OK" sign as shown in figure 1..
Figure 1. Circling a blade with finger and thumb is an example of blade grasping. - Functional change
- Examples of blade grasping included.
- Reason
- Some fencers have been known to circle a blade with an index and thumb, claiming this is not grasping the blade. This is unacceptable and unchivalric "rules lawyering" to take advantage of an unclear rule.
- For notes section
- January 2024 - Examples of blade grasping have been included, as this was previously unclear.
- 6.6.8 in Defensive objects
- Insert new rule
- When grasping, parrying, or otherwise controlling your opponent's weapon or body (such as by parrying the wrist), you must ensure you do so in a safe manner. You must avoid wrenching, twisting or pressing a joint beyond natural limits.
- Functional change
- Reminds fighters that these actions hold risk of hurting their opponent, so must be carried out carefully.
- Reason
- Accidental overextension of opponent's joints has been observed repeatedly, especially when taking control of a spear where the fighter is unable to drop the object. This emphasises the importance of control and that, should there be an incident, the burden is on the fighter who performed the action to justify their action.
- For notes section
- January 2024 - Following a number of incidents of accidental overextension of an opponent's joints, rule 6.6.8 has been added as a reminder to take care.